Breast size and cultural impact

Common sense, isn't.

Breast size and cultural impact

Postby neildarkstar » Thu May 23, 2013 4:43 pm

About boobs being useless other than to hang there looking pretty... A lot of people aren't aware that a man can, if suckled long enough, produce milk. I mention that to demonstrate that large pendulous mammaries aren't needed for the purpose of feeding babies. I nremember reading once that early men spent a lot of time huddled in caves that were at least partially underwater. What's that got to do with big boobies, you say? Well...

When the tribe or clan as you prefer was huddled soaking wet in cold water in unheated caves, warmth was naturally at a premium. Females with larger breasts would tend to be warmer and generate more body contact, which caused more arousal in the males. Thus the evolutionary tendency would be for big-breasted females to have a better chance of reproduction than the nice sweetie with two peas on an ironing board. Throughout the natural world things that are colorful or for one reason or another attractive to a prospective mate give an increased chance of reproduction and therefor continuity for the carrier of the prized attribute and the genes that go with them.

When you boil it all down, the purpose of bigger boobs, their function, if you will, is to get the lady who has them laid and pregnant more often than she who has them not. Feeding is a side issue, or so the anthropologists say....
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Postby neildarkstar » Fri May 24, 2013 2:23 am

:biggrin: You call my statement "silly" then go on to say the same thing in different words...

I cannot find the article about the watery caves that I based my statements on originally. It was in a National Geographic quite some time ago, so I suppose it's only of interest to anthropologists these days. In any case, you can find any number of articles that describe such biological choices. Unfortunately you have to go to text books which are not as easily searchable or quotable as online references references.

Here's an interesting tidbit taken from a text book though:

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2004/08/la ... aists.html

Using African nations as examples won't work out terribly well, because in nearly every part of the world except Africa mating with neanderthals was more or less common. Hence the presence of Neanderthal DNA in all humans except those originating in Africa. One can only wonder at the sensual aspects and delights (not to mention breast size) of the Neanderthal woman... :)

In any case, if you consider carefully, you will see that your own argument supports my statement. Natural selection given environmental variables, favors those attributes which prospective mates find attractive.

If breasts are attractive to males, and if lactation is not tied to size, large breasts serve no function other than to attract males. That IS their primary function.

To prove otherwise, you would have to demonstrate that breast enhancement does nothing, and I guarantee you that every advertizing company (not to mention Baywatch type producers) in Western civilization will laugh you out of the room. Advertizing is 10% product and the rest is boobs and curves. How many celebrity starlets try to enhance their sexuality by surgically reducing their breast size?

In defense of small breasts, it is true that there are other things which can, and do compensate for small breasts. Eye/hair color, fashion sense, personality and so forth. Small breasts do not make a woman unattractive. Note the differences here on just this site between the "Busty Babes" and "Au Natural" threads. Still, it remains that identical twins where one has breast enhancement implants and the other doesn't, that one will be usually considered "sexier". One might as well ask "What is the purpose of breast implants?" as to ask (other than feeding) "What is the purpose of large breasts?" eh? :)

As a side note, the size and skin color of Southeastern Asians is a matter of some conjecture, but is generally considered to be not so much tied to natural selection as to environment, overpopulation, and diet.
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Re: A long and winding road.

Postby PiNK PiPER » Fri May 24, 2013 10:19 am

I don't have time to get into this like I normally do on a Friday however if someone copies our posts and opens up a new thread somewhere else I will gladly discuss this topic further.

I will have to re read your latest post as you have said a lot however your original post did not read well, as if you were saying that everyone is attracted to large breasts which from what men have told me I don't think is true. Many men would choose a shapely breast(s) over a loose large one(s).
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Re: A long and winding road.

Postby PiNK PiPER » Fri May 24, 2013 2:59 pm

neildarkstar wrote::biggrin: You call my statement "silly" then go on to say the same thing in different words...



@neil;
this is a great conversation thread. I propose we move it to another thread. Perhaps someone can do that for us.

I didn't mean to insult you ( idon't think you were really insulted as you have said before you like these type of conversations and don't take things too seriously and don't personalize these things) but I tend to get very defensive about boob size. I also use the word silly a lot. It is one of my words and it could mean many different things depending how I say it. Of course the problem with communicating over the internet is you don't get the hear the inflection and cadence. I like you and find you funny "eh" and look forward to many spirited debates. I won't judge you on your stupidity if you don't judge me on mine :biggrin:

Re reading your original post it does seem like we were saying some similar things however, this topic is still argued today by evolutionary biologists and evolutionary psychologists and other schools of science; tthe accepted theory is a smorgasbord of each. The problem comes when they do the same psychological tests on Asian men. This is where they find some big differences which go against many of the current theories. It is a hotly debated subject.

I do remember learning that the shape of the female breasts changed when we started walking upright instead of hunched over. And I do know that the size of our breasts have to do with fat deposits. But the theory that females with bigger breasts had an advantage over their flatter sisters doesn't really work for me in all scenarios. Breast feeding is easier for babies to latch onto smaller breasts. Heavy large breasts make it difficult to move quickly and run away from danger (like a lion or panther) and more difficult for long walks/hikes. And humans have always tried to control breeding. Like arranged marriages that were a benefit to the individual families. I am also of the belief that most men prefer firm breasts over just size and there are also preferences of nipple and size and colour of the areola that play a part in different cultures And then there is the Asian factor.
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Re: Breast size and cultural impact

Postby Jac » Fri May 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Split from the Long and Winding Road thread.
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Re: Breast size and cultural impact

Postby neildarkstar » Fri May 24, 2013 4:45 pm

Asian preferences are difficult to determine. One may think almond shaped eyes (which I personally find terribly exotic) and yellowish skin are preferred, but the current (and very popular) practice of skin whitening throughout Southeast Asia would indicate otherwise. I also have to wonder if tiny women are preferred because such a high percentage of the men are relatively tiny. Dominant males tend to associate size with dominance, so a woman 6 inches taller than her husband might be an embarrassment in some honor-bound societies...

I would never say that all men prefer large breast sizes, but I think a majority of men do like larger but well-shaped breasts. That set of boobs on Granny that are shaped like Polish sausages and hang to her knees is not real seductive, generally. Though they do make great ear warmers when riding motorcycles. :biggrin:

On the other hand, my third wife (who I mentioned earlier) was the presiding Madam President of the itty-bitty titty committee, and it was she who first told me about the reference to "two peas on an ironing board". Yet, the first time I saw her, I suddenly found it hard to breathe, and when she stepped near me, I was certain the entire room could hear the pounding of my heart. It certainly wasn't breast size that caused that, eh? As a side note, she had something of a complex regarding her size, and did eventually get implants, though it was long after we were divorced.

As to breast feeding being easier, I really don't know about that. Even small-busted women have larger boobs when lactating, so how do you judge? I do know women who had a much smaller breast size after having babies and then ending breast feeding though. I'm uncertain as to the relevance offered by such an observation in any case. Anyway, breast feeding is the result of successful reproduction, but certainly not the cause...

One last thought, perhaps humans have always tried to control breeding, but I think the results have been far less than optimal. A passing thought from your friendly neighborhood bastard. :-D
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Re: Breast size and cultural impact

Postby PiNK PiPER » Sat May 25, 2013 1:07 am

Huh, I wasn't aware of the practice of skin whitening throughout southeast Asia but it doesn't surprise me too much. In India when a man talks about his wife to be they say, "She is very light skinned." Basically it goes back to the old days where if you had darker skin it meant you worked in the fields all day. What is surprising is I first heard it here in Canada when an Indian man was talking about his fiance and he said it.

But after I saw a documentary called, "The perfect vagina" http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/perfect-vagina/documenting the insecurities women have about the appearance of their genitals and learning that operations to improve the appearance of the sex organs for both psychological and physical reasons are on the rise, nothing really surprises me. I never really had a complex about my vg until I watched it lol

Skin colour to me though is all about environmental factors but the Asian eyes is most definitely sexual selection. You do make a good point about men liking smaller women in a type of dominance scenario. It would make sense that if the men were small then they would prefer smaller women but then again it also makes sense that if the men were mating with small women then the offspring would be small and over the thousands of years end up with civilizations like the Philippines where both men and women are tiny compared to western standards.

Here's an interesting study that supports your arguement http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~hbe-lab/acrobatfiles/nubility.pdf and here's another that supports mine http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-3514.68.2.261 Notice the line; "...the Taiwanese also were less positively influenced by certain sexual maturity and expressive features. Exposure to Western media did not influence attractiveness ratings in either study".

As to breast feeding being easier think about it from a baby's point of view. It is much easier for the small baby with their small hands to grab and use their small mouth and suckle. It is relevant from a biological point of view although I admit it is a weak point but a point nonetheless.

As far as bastards you are correct. You are a bastard :biggrin: hehehe but as you have previously pointed out early humans did encounter and mated with Neanderthals and I do remember seeing a PBS science show last year where they said that all humans have Neanderthal DNA except for Black Africans who stayed in Africa and missed the chance to sleep with them. Kinda disproves all white supremacist racist theories when it is we white Europeans who are the bastards :facepalm:

Madam President of the itty-bitty titty committee :bouncy: I love it. I am definitely stealing that one from you.
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Re: Breast size and cultural impact

Postby Adul » Sat May 25, 2013 4:55 am

PiNK PiPER wrote:But after I saw a documentary called, "The perfect vagina" http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/perfect-vagina/documenting the insecurities women have about the appearance of their genitals and learning that operations to improve the appearance of the sex organs for both psychological and physical reasons are on the rise, nothing really surprises me.


Oh man, I think I saw part of that or another documentary that dealt with the same topic and it was horrifying to me. I always feel sad when young women have body parts altered that they're so needlessly insecure about. Not to mention the few who get hooked and will not stop with the surgeries until they look like monsters. It's just bad when someone lets vanity take full control of their lives like that.

I do understand that it's their body and their choice and I fully agree with that sentiment, but I do reserve the right to feel awful for those girls and enmity towards the doctors who agree to perform these operations. :uhuh:
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Re: Breast size and cultural impact

Postby neildarkstar » Sat May 25, 2013 6:45 am

In the end, that second article didn't have a lot to say, really. I suppose if one were to spend the $12 to buy the full text, it might shed more illumination, but the summary they published really said it all.

"Their ideas of beauty are, on the whole, the same as ours"


While the indication that the Taiwanese and Filipino population may be less influenced by some features, that is not to say that they are NOT influenced. And to say that exposure to Western media does not influence attractiveness, is perhaps misleading.

We tend to cling to the stimuli that moved us in our formative years (I dearly love well-filled Daisy Dukes worn with a shirt tied under the bust leaving a bare belly), and stimuli that is accepted as attractive in our culture. Western media uses sex appeal to sell products ranging from perfume to drain cleaners. That doesn't mean they care to redefine what is or is not attractive, but to play on exaggerated forms of what is already considered attractive or sexy. With the possible exception of fashion designers, who are notoriously out of touch with what "real" people feel is attractive.

However, if those Taiwanese students stay in the areas of Western civilization, and assimilate into the culture, their children will likely adopt Western values as portrayed by Western media. For instance, there are very few 2nd generation American Japanese who would bind their daughter's feet to make them tiny, eh?

As to vagina perfection... A friend of mine once told me there's only two kinds. One looks like prime beaver, the other looks like a wildcat with the mange... If the guy is more concerned with what it looks like than what use he'll put it to, he's probably dating the wrong sex.
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Re: Breast size and cultural impact

Postby PiNK PiPER » Sat May 25, 2013 2:47 pm

neildarkstar wrote:
"Their ideas of beauty are, on the whole, the same as ours"

Keep in mind the words, "on the whole" because a large part of the test focuses on the symmetry of the face and it concludes that certain features are considered attractive across cultural lines like high cheekbones, olive shaped eyes, a specific measurement between the eyes, long hair and a roundish face. But yes, studies do suggest that humans agree who is and isn’t attractive, both within and across ethnicity and culture. Attraction is not merely in the eye of the beholder but that there are universal standards of attractiveness. Both men and women rated symmetrical members of the opposite sex as more attractive and in better health than their less symmetrical counterparts. Additionally, men with a higher degree of symmetry had more sexual partners than men of lower symmetry.

neildarkstar wrote:While the indication that the Taiwanese and Filipino population may be less influenced by some features, that is not to say that they are NOT influenced. And to say that exposure to Western media does not influence attractiveness, is perhaps misleading.

Perhaps, perhaps not. However I infer this to support my point that these Asian men still preferred short woman with small breasts. We could even look at our own gaming addiction as an experiment and go look at the body mods over at the Nexus and what do we find? BBB body mods mostly used by western men and AA body mods mostly used by Asian men. You point of exaggerated body proportions is noted here (BBB body mods) but my point of short bodies is also exaggerated with all the x117 mbp+ races that are available.

neildarkstar wrote:However, if those Taiwanese students stay in the areas of Western civilization, and assimilate into the culture, their children will likely adopt Western values as portrayed by Western media. For instance, there are very few 2nd generation American Japanese who would bind their daughter's feet to make them tiny, eh?

ARC! They don't do that anymore do they? I don't think so.That is so sick. Could you imagine the pain? Those poor women. It must have been pure torture to even walk. Although even Charles Darwin noted a universal motive to become attractive even when it required “wonderfully great suffering however in this case those poor oriental women had no choice. OMG my toes are squirming just thinking about it. OUCH!

I think the general rule of thumb for full integration into western society is 3 generations but your point is well made. However it is also true that children will also be attracted to people that look similar to themselves and have features similar to their parents. People commonly rank faces similar to their own as more attractive and trustworthy. Men are more attracted to women whose bone structure is similar to their own mothers. Like Pavlov's dogs (classical and operant conditioning) they call it “sexual imprinting,” which means faces we find attractive as adults were determined in childhood. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1314344/Why-women-fall-men-look-like-father.html

neildarkstar wrote:As to vagina perfection... A friend of mine once told me there's only two kinds. One looks like prime beaver, the other looks like a wildcat with the mange... If the guy is more concerned with what it looks like than what use he'll put it to, he's probably dating the wrong sex.

"a wildcat with the mange" RLMAO hahahaha too funny :biggrin: There is a part in the documentary where the female reporter goes and asked her 2 carpenters working at her house if there is such a thing of an ugly vagina and their response shockingly crude. They said if they didn't like the look of a woman's vagina that they wouldn't date them again. Thousands of women are seeking elective surgeries that offer more attractive private parts. As the documentary points out an increasing number of women are paying thousands of dollars for genital sculpting, http://bodysculptingd4.wikispaces.com/Body+sculpting+with+liposuction+Find+Out+More+About+Vaginal+Surgery I even read an advertisement in my local newspaper that women can now have a procedure that makes them "tighter" like they were before childbirth for elevated sexual pleasure :hubba: Western society spends more money per year on beauty enhancements than they do on education. Go figure huh? http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/relationship-advice/attraction Anyways that reminds me I really need a pedicure! Now that summer is here my feet need to look good in flip-flops :biggrin:
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