When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Common sense, isn't.

When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Elaura » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:04 pm

Yes, you read that right. Once upon a time, young people worried about acne, not back hair. Playboy centerfolds had hair down there . . . and curves. Pubescent boys waited for their first chest hair as excitedly as they waited for their voice to change for good. A taunt which replaced "I dare you" in any boy over the age of 12 was "You don't have a hair on your ass if you don't . . ."

American women alone spend between $10,000 to $23,000 over their lifetime to remove hair at home; I can only imagine how much more men are spending to mow down every hair that isn't on top of their heads. Not to mention his and hers professional hair removal.

People will argue it's "personal preference" and no one is being forced to the torture chamber; however, that's not really the truth of it, is it?

Before I started Basic Combat Training, I decided for the sake of my health, I wouldn't create any intentional openings in my skin while I was crawling around in the mud and showering with 20 other women. This meant I took out my body piercings (all nine of them), stopped shaving, stopped plucking, and for good measure, got my hair cut short enough so I didn't have to pin it up.

I figured this was the smart thing to do as nobody in BCT could possibly be concerned with anything but the fact I was clean . . . I was wrong. The night before Family Day, just before graduation, I sat down with all my implements of mass exfoliation and depilation. Though no one had ever mentioned my body hair before, suddenly I got a rush of fellow female graduates telling me how relieved they were I finally shaved. One girl even said she had wanted to tie me down and do it herself. WTF?!? These were grown-up heterosexual women who cared what a woman old enough to be their mother did with her own body hair! Where did they learn this?

Ever have a conversation with a young woman about men and back hair? I don't mean to get too graphic, but the same people who will let their sexual partners stick any unwashed, un-protected thing anywhere, will balk at back hair. They vomit in their mouth at the sight of it, but don't even check their lovers' fingernails before they let their fingers do the walking. Now that makes me vomit in my mouth.

Women aren't the only victims of this weird obsession with looking forever on the verge of puberty. If you think shaving nicks, burns, and bumps on a man's neck look painful, wait till you see them elsewhere. "In my day," said the old codger, the only men who got rid of their body hair were bodybuilders, swimmers, and figure skaters and with the exception of that last group, they only did it for competitions. Mustaches, beards, chest hair . . . these defined what it meant to become a man. Back and butt hair were something men only thought about in the locker room, when someone either resembled a bear skin rug or was suspiciously smooth.

Now, mustaches are believed to indicate sexual preference and bearded men are either dirty, or lazy, or both. If your shirt is off in public and you have chest hair, back hair, or pecs that might fit in a training bra, your so-called "friends" feel obligated to mention it.

I think the fashion industry has decided to turn everyone into bisexual pedophiles. No indications of gender or maturity are acceptable. I have a bit to say about the health issues caused by depilation, but that is another long diatribe and my dinner is getting cold. Talk amongst yourselves, but try to remember i'm not slamming the hairless, I just wish people would be as accepting of people's choice to keep it as we are in people's choice to take it all off.
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Adul » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:18 pm

I'm not a fan of society's enforced beauty standards, either. I often wish people had a greater variety of looks to choose from instead of all being forced to conform to the same ideals or be the subjects of ridicule. Diversity is good, m'kay?

But then again, I'm not one to talk because even if I wanted to look like someone starring in John Carpenter's "The Thing", I couldn't. Instead of a beard, I get the perma-stubble. My genes have probably neglected to get that hair-growing thing going. Eh, what can ya do? :shrug:

On a more serious note I kinda see androgyny as a mixed bag. For one there's the enforced societal ideal aspect that definitely sucks. But I also think the tendency towards an androgynous look is connected to the decline of traditional gender roles (a la 1950s) in today's society. And that's a good thing, because those were mostly bullshit. :goodjob:
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Raym » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:36 am

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...proud owner of mustaches and goatee. I'm thinking about a beard, if I manage to find a shape that looks good with my shaved head. :P
And that's the only part of me you'll see me shaving. As a friend of my said, "A man who shaves his armpits and legs probably shaves his vagina, too". :lol:

Not that I really give a damn what other people do, of course.
As for women, it's true I think they are prettier shaved... yet, I'm all for natural beauty. I love a curvy woman and think skinny ones just look... well, sick.

So yeah... I think I'm a rebel! :afro:
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby neildarkstar » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:05 am

I currently have a chin beard. I can't really tolerate a beard in the hot months, but I often grow a beard in winter. Regarding "dirty" or lazy, well it takes a lot more work to keep my beard trimmed than it would to just shave, and as to dirt... well, once upon a time an old Irish jack ass named Doherty told me my mustache looked like I had a dirty face and wouldn't keep it clean. I told him I cold wash my face, and shave off my mustache, but that he would always be a useless drunk, even if he was my father-in-law...

I had a wife once who convinced me we should shave our pubies off. I learned quickly that I don't give a damn what hers looks like, there's no way I'm putting up with stubble on either one of us. Ol' Ramblin' Rod was definitely not pleased with stubble burns, eh? ;)

I kinda felt that same way about making love on the beach. Sand in all the wrong places takes the romance out of anything. Especially if it's From Here to Eternity...

Anyway, I think anyone who spends their life trying to conform to the fashion wishes of others needs some help. Those "others" are simply tools caught in the same fashion trap that they would inflict on everyone else. I always think they are trying to make up for some other issue. Guilt, shame, inferiority, or a lack of confidence, whatever... that's why they need to be stylish. Unless of course they are making a living being stylish, like a Playboy bunny or a lingerie model or strippers (even Chippendales). They have good reason to worry about trends, but the rest of us should just do whatever floats our boat.
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Dlichnum » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:30 am

I like hairy men, and i like women with fur down under. But I was always taught that relationships are give and take. If i want somebody to spend extended time with their face down there, I should definitely be considerate on whether they find fur gross or not, and be willing to accommodate, just as they'll work with me.

Outside of the bedroom? Who gives a shit. It doesn't involve me.

(Hopefully that made sense :? )
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Nessa » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:16 pm

Heh, I must be a minority then. I'm not overly fond of hair, and... you damn well better have those fingernails and EVERYTHING else clean too! :lol:

Oh yeah, since this is a rant thread, this has really been brought home to me recently: knowing how to dress is important. That is simply lost on most men and unfortunately... most women too. (I particularly love the girls my age that can't walk in heels. If you can't, DON'T!) Having recently been exposed to BOTH men and women that can actually dress and know hygiene, I'm afraid I'm forever changed. I may never date in the US ever again.... :bouncy: :bouncy:

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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Elaura » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:57 pm

Adul, I agree about gender roles, but letting people be who they are meant to be is not what the Fashion industry is pushing when they put up billboards featuring male and female models who all look like pre-pubescent boys. Some folks naturally look one gender or the other and some are naturally androgynous. Some are happy with the gender they resemble, some aren't. I simply resent the idea that coastal America gets to dictate what it means to be feminine or masculine, regardless of anatomy or role in society.

Raym, Jac shaves his head and wears a mustache and goatee. He looks great in it. It isn't shameful to be attracted to a particular style and we're certainly already trained to an extent. I do think it's shameful when someone can't get past their friends and lovers not fitting their ideal. Jac has told me many times he likes my red hair, but I am completely confident that if it turned green and/or fell out, he wouldn't love me any less or find me less attractive. He just might talk to my doctor about my medication if I did it to myself intentionally. :)

Neil, as per usual, I'm with you all the way on this one. Stage and screen used to be fake. It used to be Hollywood glamour that no one, not even the stars, could achieve anywhere but on set. Now everyone seems to think they're a star and not only *could* look like they just walked off a movie set, but *should* look like it 24/7. I can't imagine the disappointment when they discover their lovers' makeup rubs off on their pillow when they sleep.

Dlich, you're right, what consenting adults do for one another is between them. Cosmopolitan magazine should really stay out of it.

Nessa, I know exactly what you mean. People's perceptions have changed to equate hairless with clean, probably by the phrase "clean shaven", but nothing could be farther from the truth. Nicks, cuts, shave bumps, and razor burn are five-star bacterial hotels.

The normal body "flora" is meant to stay outside, on the surface of moist skin and body hair. It's true, as a result, a person's natural scent is stronger when they have body hair, but there's nothing unclean about it as long as they wash themselves regularly. On the other hand, when we dry out our hairless skin with astringents and anti-antiperspirants, we're just asking for trouble. What people need these days is a lesson in what "clean" really means, not what people who want to sell you stuff say it means.

As for knowing how to dress, I'll share with you something a Chaplain once told me. It's all about location and audience. What you might do in a bathroom is completely inappropriate ten feet in any direction. Unless you have two toilets ten feet apart, he's not wrong. The other half of knowing how to dress is knowing *when* to dress. It's no more appropriate to show up at a family reunion picnic dressed for a meeting with the CEO than it is to go to a job interview at an accounting firm in torn jeans and a dirty tee-shirt: an outfit which is only appropriate if you are currently doing whatever it was that got dirt on your shirt and tore your jeans.

Everyone has their own ideas about fashion and what is appropriate when and where. We all have our own ideas about who "fashionable people" are and why they do what they do. The truth is, in todays media environment it's pretty hard not to be shallow if you aren't firmly grounded. I often think people who follow trends religiously as leaves on the wind. They don't know who they are, so they try to be who their circle of "friends" say they should be. If you have good, strong friendships with people who know who they are, their advice can be invaluable. On the other hand, one leaf taking advice from another leaf is sad.
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby KendraD » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:54 pm

Nessa wrote:Heh, I must be a minority then. I'm not overly fond of hair, and... you damn well better have those fingernails and EVERYTHING else clean too! :lol:

Oh yeah, since this is a rant thread, this has really been brought home to me recently: knowing how to dress is important. That is simply lost on most men and unfortunately... most women too. (I particularly love the girls my age that can't walk in heels. If you can't, DON'T!) Having recently been exposed to BOTH men and women that can actually dress and know hygiene, I'm afraid I'm forever changed. I may never date in the US ever again.... :bouncy: :bouncy:

:biggrin:


Hey! Not all of us in the US are dirty slobs with no regard or skill at dress and hygiene! *giggles* as for hair... I like my men with SOME hair... although my current boyfriend almost qualifies as a "Furry" just from his body hair alone... as for women, I prefer none, or well trimmed... Hate trying to dig through a damn rain forest when it's play time! lol

Plus, when yer hairless, and things start getting all slickery, well... that's when the REAL fun starts! ROFL :goodjob:
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby fable2 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:34 pm

Styles change. When I was growing up...

:oldtimer:

...a tat was a sign of someone who was part of the drug or thug underworld, or so I was led to believe. And truth to tell, there were damn few people with tats that you ran across, unless you knew someone in the Navy, and who was part of a certain age group. I didn't make judgements, but I did notice when more parlors began showing up: a sign of the times. No big deal. My wife is definitely anti-tattoo, with prejudices firmly in place. :D And there's nothing wrong with that, or with a more lenient view, or with having a dozen tats. Just as long as the viewer doesn't let it interfere with dealing with a person. Because that person is really another universe, and it's a shame to just slap a label on it and walk to the other side of the street for avoidance's sake, if you follow me.

Same with piercings. Last time they were big among men was back in the 17th century. Now, they're here, again. And wow, women are wearing piercings in areas that they didn't in Iowa back 100 years ago. So?

What I do object to is the way commercialism seeks to control how we view others and ourselves, even to the point of deliberately pushing unhealthy behavioral illnesses. Anorexia doesn't pop up out of nowhere. It's now fashionable, and I find the starved look as hideous as I do the cold minds that devised and promote it. What a waste to do that to a life.
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Re: When did Androgyny replace Anarchy?

Postby Nessa » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:19 am

Back to the subject of beards.... all I have to say is...

Whomever plays Thorin in the Hobbit, looks a hell of a lot hotter with that beard. :dwarf:

Saw the actor do a little announcement about... something.. prior to seeing it and I didn't recognize him at all until my friend pointed it out.

I guess it just depends on the guy. For instance the Legolas guy looks downright dorky with a beard. Though... that guy is pretty much dorky period UNLESS he's Legolas. Must be the pointy ears. And the hair. And the clothes... AHEM.. :hubba:

OK, I shall return to my evil tower. :dramaqueen:
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